feature story: Beat #1141 12 Nov 2008

cradle of filth

Dani Filth gets out of bed “the wrong side of the proverbial grave” to check in via phone, discussing demonology, murder, kidnap, rape, conducting black mass ceremonies and not being described as gay.

Dani, I was just translating your Latin on Godspeed on the Devil’s Thunder. So far I have “noble guardian of wolf eggs”.

“Noble guardian of wolf eggs”?

Yeah.

It translates as: “an excellent protector of sheep is the wolf”.

Right, same deal.

I don’t know where the “eggs” bit came into it.

“Ovium”. I was thinking of ovaries.

Uh-huh.

Do you consider Gilles de Rais a monster? [Note: de Rais is a serial killer from the Middle Ages, whose life inspired Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder.]

Well, obviously, yeah. People just assume that we’re just interested in the serial killer aspect of him. That’s not true at all. We like the decadence and the Gothicism and the adult fairy tale aspect to it. So there are Edgar Allen Poe-style mixed feelings about his descent into depravity and madness. At one point he is practically a modern day rock star. He travels around France with his own entourage, his own private army, putting on these huge passion plays to represent his and Joan of Arc’s victories — and this is after her death. That’s before he retires to his castle and begins trying to replenish his fortune through the means of alchemy, which inevitably leads to sorcery, witchcraft, demonology, murder, kidnap, rape, et cetera. But do I think he’s innocent? Well, it’s not an episode of Columbo, this album. It’s not a particularly interesting topic: is Gilles de Rais innocent or guilty? And the translation of that into music would be crap as well, I should imagine.

Do you think that people are fundamentally savage and have the inherent potential to descend to Gilles de Rais’ state?

Well, yes I do. I think the whole story in itself is a blueprint for the means of human debauchery. I often wonder to the excess some people might go, were they in the same position — where they had their own private army, were above the law, above reproach and sanctified by the church. And I think within the jurisdiction of all that wealth, yes, they would.

Would you find it offensive if I described you as a modern day Oscar Wilde character?

Well, without the gay bits [laughs uproariously]. But yeah, but you may do.

[Laughs] Then are you of the opinion that music should aim to be beautiful, even if it’s in a repulsive way?

Well, yeah, obviously.

Why obviously?

Well, there’s no point in NOT appealing to the listener, is there? And it’s the same kind of thing that I’ve never understood about a lot of these underground — not Norwegian — but these underground black metal bands, who just preach and advocate hate and pain. Because obviously they love what they’re doing. They don’t hate what they’re actually doing. Because why are they doing it if they hate it? It’s just such an antithesis of life. But you can see beauty in all kinds of things. Some people find graffiti beautiful. I don’t, I find it fucking offensive. But there you go.

The ancient Greeks — well, some of them — had the idea that beauty is terror, that whatever we call beautiful we quiver before it.

Yeah, I think the other Greeks you’re not talking about found men in loin cloths beautiful [giggles].

[Laughs] I’d like to talk about flamboyance. I’ve always been of the opinion that subtlety is overrated. As the most bombastic man in heavy metal, do you share this view?

[Laughs] Well, obviously sometimes we can be less than subtle. But I think sometimes we get out of bed the wrong side of the proverbial grave. I mean, the “JESUS IS A CUNT” t-shirt, we’re now talking 17 years since its first inception.

And yet it comes up seemingly in every interview.

It’s a powerful metaphor. And it still rears its ugly head from time to time. [Note: earlier this year, a Gold Coast teen was arrested for wearing the shirt, which depicts a masturbating nun; the shirt was also recently banned in New Zealand.] But then on the other side of things, people who have a go at us about that miss the subtleties of our artwork. And every now and then it doesn’t hurt if you are subtlety-based, like Opeth. I dare say that’s [Mikael Åkerfeldt's] release valve.

From all I’ve seen and read of you, you seem consistently cogent. And never really, um … I’m going to say unhinged. Are you really this stable?

I guess so, yeah. I keep it together pretty well.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You sound convinced.

[Laughs] Well, I guess I just thought you were a bit mad.

Well, that’s irrefutable. But quite a few years back we were well-known for being serious drinkers. And you can only do that so much before it starts affecting the work.

Cradle of Filth, like any band of importance, has had its detractors. Have they ever poisoned your faith in humanity?

Occasionally, yeah. But then, that was a while ago. Nowadays I just laugh at it. I read a review the other day, and the guy obviously had a real problem with the band, because he gave the new album literally half a point. And I just laughed. Rather than ages ago, I would have thought, You bastard! How dare you! Nowadays I just laugh, because at the end of the day, I’d rather people be talking about the band than not talking about us at all. And I guess that’s better than just remaining anonymous. Or just mediocre.

So maintaining this conviction furnishes you with the emotional fortitude to deal with bullshit?

Yeah, yeah. I just think, fuck ‘em. I’m not interested. You know, there’s so much to do. I have no time for anything negative. All it does is worm its way in and fester. So I just ignore it.

The thing that makes me angry is the way that often critics can’t respect risk-taking as a triumph unto itself.

Are you referring to our last record? [giggles]

No, I meant in general.

There’s now a very candid, throw-away sarky attitude, thanks to the internet. On the plus side it unites people. But it also promotes that sort of lazy nonchalance, where you people just look at one thing and then just go to the other. So it’s really easy to dis someone’s entire life’s work with the click of a button.

You’re someone who has evolved –

As a fish?

[Fit of laughter] No, as an artist.

Oh, not as a fish then.

[Additional fit of laughter] So do you think that human beings appreciate someone who evolves, or do you think they just want to hear the same thing spewed out repeatedly?

I don’t know. I think people like things to evolve, but at the same time they like familiarity. I’m like that with some bands. I’m a fan of a band called Bad Religion. And from album to album I don’t care if they stay the same band, because as soon as they start experimenting, they fuck up big style. Everybody’s favourite album at one point was Reign in Blood by Slayer. And they wanted them to make Reign in Blood Part Two, but they never quite did. And then, on the other hand, there’s AC/DC. They’re bringing out the nineteenth studio album, and it’s the same album for the nineteenth time. But nobody cares, because that’s what they want. That’s what I want from AC/DC. I don’t want to hear them experiment with reggae.

I think you make a good point — it varies from artist to artist. Because there are certain people — David Bowie is a good example — who constantly evolve. That’s the very thing that people have come to love about Bowie.

Exactly. His phases.

You too have had a career that has been quite resplendent. Do you have any artistic ambitions that are unfulfilled?

Yeah. There was talk a few years back about working with Diamanda Galás.

No shit?

Yeah, it’ll be great, and that’s something –

Teleconference moderator: Excuse me for the interruption, you have one minute remaining in this call.

Hmm. Voice from beyond the grave. Edgar Allen Poe. Um, yeah, and a few years back we met the last living descendent of Elizabeth Bathory, Dennis Bathory. He’s written an opera about his forebear, and there was talk about us playing alongside his opera at one of her castles, which would be cool. And I’ve always wanted to do a black mass. Like a proper black mass. But half a real black mass and half a launch party. I just like the idea of everybody not knowing where they’re going and meeting up in the woods.

[Laughs] I hope I’m there for it.

Yeah, grease up your broom! [giggles]

Does Dani Filth have a message for the children?

The children? Yeah. Hold tight, I’ll come and visit you tonight.

This article is mirrored at Beat magazine.